Glenn has a very complicated personality and I’m sure he’s one of the Lords very unique and interesting children and sometimes, as the imperfect human being I am, he bothers me. He slams the Mass health Care plan, not being very informed. He was for Rudy in the primaries, who is pro choice and has a very sorry private life or did or however you want to put it. Now, he is for Palin, or at least trying to make it appear that way, so he does not get attacked.

I have seen becks testimony of Heavenly Father and the Savior. I have heard him talk about the Lord and answered prayers. I have heard him talk about his loving Heavenly Fathers hand in his life and even though he is ADD ( very hyper ) and sometimes a little off, I believe him to be one of the most authentically spiritually man I have known. Beck has a complete witness of the Lord and his love for Glenn and all people. This is no Mike Huckabee, who just likes sounding smart and neat and who is very trained at it. I have never heard any Evangelical Preacher, speak with such authority and sincerity.

How does having perfect Mormons everywhere do any good for Mormons. The people using the near perfection card have an agenda and there is something wrong with them. The imperfections of Beck, Romney, Harry Reid, David Archuleta ECT ECT are probably one of the best things about them, in terms of how people view Mormons. Don’t get me wrong, not to imperfect, like if we all looked like people in the 1800′s and were quiet and secluded or Pen Jollette or Gov Jessey Ventura and Keith Olberman, then I would be concerned.

Glenn Becks entire life is one of the great stories of Mormonism. He used to do all kinds of drugs and was an alcoholic. His life was worse than can be explained. Through a series of miracles, from a loving Heavenly Father, Beck has made it out of some of the darkest places one can go. He is happy. He is entertaining. He is upbeat. He will probably take over Bill Orielly and Limbuah and Hannity. He is young. He is comfortable to be around. Many people love him AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, WE WILL PROBABLY SEE HIM GROW MORE. He came out of nowhere, like a rocket. So even though Beck has bothered me on occasion, by and large is a very good representative of a Mormon. Everyone is imperfect.

I think Lowell disputes this ridiculous dishonesty of some trying to pin something on Romney that clearly is not there. By the way Joe, is this all you have? I mean it sounds so stupid and ridiculous. Also, I want to address the fact that you have a motive that is very powerful and you will do anything, to tear Romney down, but here’s Lowells words.

“Romney did not say, ”My father and I marched with Martin Luther King Jr. through the streets of Detroit.” He said he “saw” his father walk with the Rev. King. There’s a discussion of that here. You can draw all the conclusions you want about that mini-kerfluffle, but you need to get the facts right. (Personally, I saw John F. Kennedy do a lot of things – on television news reports. Am I lying when I say I saw him? Not at all. I also my own father go to work at a copper mine every day for years. Was I present and witnessing what he did at work? No, but I am not lying when I say I “saw” him do that. That attack on Romney’s credibility was one of the most overblown MSM stunts I have ever seen.)”

So your disputed on that one. If you try to argue that, you’ll make yourself look even more mad and irrational than you are. I have no problem with people being a little emotional or even emotional, I surely can be sometimes and I am working on it, but you seem like a mad possessed man and a very dishonest one.

What dishonesty are you talking about, that is so clear cut and not the usual talking points? Oh, you mean when he was a Mormon in Massachusetts, on another planet, full of liberals and Catholics, when he said he will respect there culture and there laws and thereby protecting the right of a women to choose an abortion? Your right it, it was not the right time for Romney to elaborate on the whole and yes he did mess up, but more on how explained a few times.Tell me, what is wrong with that???????????????? There was no way around it and it is not dishonest. He never said he was pro choice and he never was. Ya, Romney is not perfect and could have explained himself better and chpose not to use some words, but give the guy a break for crying out loud. He’s the only one who has been honest about his change and and few adjustments, which were not political at all.

If he is so political than why did he take a bigger step than any state had ever took at that time and get everybody health care. Surely, he knew that had potential be a problem with conservatives. He did not have to do that and care about the lives of Americans Joe.

So what other lies are you talking about? The man was not welcome from the start, because of his religion and he tried to fit in and I think he said some things that did not come across well, but that does not mean, he’s like many politicians and lies like crazy. He said some things about guns, but he did not lie. He pandered a little, like Pawlenty is now and got more attacked because he was Mormon. He said he had been a hunter and hunted small things, like rabbits. He was never for gay marriage. Yes, there are some issues, that even though he did not have a huge change of position on, he like everyone else out there, made some adjustments, as he got more information.

Even if Romney did give very clear cut lies a few times and I do not believe he did, how is that any different than others. Mike Huckabee has been one the most dishonest politicians we have seen in a long time. After all, he is from Hope Arkansas, changing his position on Immigration, lying about Maurice Clemmens and his clemmencies and lying about his role in the using of another mans religion against him and many other things.

Romney loves this country and yes he is not perfect, but I think the man has grown greatly. Even his public speaking has got better. By the way, a former supporter of Hucks, has come out and said he is being dishonest about these clemmencies and we are not talking about little smudgings and leaving some things out. He has lied. There is no way, with how many people he gave clemmencies to, that he read all there files, including prison files, which Clemmens was as bad as it gets. Sexual assault, attacking a prison guard ECT ECt and then not to mention all his lies during the campaign, about all things Romney.

Joe, maybe if you did not seem like a possessed mad man, who hated Romney, for no reason, unless you really are tricking yourself and believing the lies about Romney or maybe you want to believe them, but if you were more rational and not so extreme you could make your case. I mean come one, you try to bring the he saw his back in the days, do a lot of things, such as march with in civil rights movements and with King. I do not believe Romney was lying. He was just trying to make a point. This shows how extreme and irrational you are.

You’ve been debunked, big time. In my opinion, it’s Romney’s religion you have the problem with, not Romney’s personal life or his honesty. There is no better man in politics and Huckabee is not even close to Romney in terms of character.

The most underreported story in Presidential politics is Mike Huckabees skilful use of anti Mormon tactics. For those who doubt the extent of it, I will point a few things out, since it is not reported, as it would have been, if it was a Catholic or a Jew, that Huckabee did this to. The snubbing of an entire religion, that it was, which I say as more factual, than being emotional. I simply desire to make a political point.

The official website for Mike Huckabee when running for president, was filled with anti Mormon rhetoric. I use to get on that website and the hatred towards Mormons was well documented, by a site which is now called “committedtoromney.com”. I will not get into detaials and others are free to come forth, with information, to prove the point.

Most of the people spreading the strong anti LDS feelings were only people who made comments, or at least they made it appear that way. However, there is one person, who’s shocking consistent comments about Mormons and the lies and hate that was coming forth, might surprise a few. No other than Sarah Huckabee herself, would dialogue back and forth about the Mormon religion and it was some of the worst I have ever seen.

Now, this went on for at least a few months, leading up to the Iowa primaries, maybe longer. I was not aware of it the site before then. How could Mr. responsible Mike Huckabee not even know what was going on in his website for so long and being not only allowed by his own daughter, but even her fueling the flames? It was clearly not coincidence and they were either hoping for such comments, or some running the website were secretly posting the comments.

Sarah Huckabee however, she made no secret about her feelings about Mormons. I can’t remember exactly, but she may have tried to back track on some things and softened her tone, leaving it up to her fellow Evangelicals, all serious about the cause of stopping a Mormon President, but one thing is for sure, she was known, with others, to make comments and questions similar to the one her Dad made.

Mike Huckabees apology to Mitt Romney was nothing more than a spit in the face. Even though he comes across as harmless, the kind of guy you could win in a wrestling match easily, I submit, he is far from an innocent or truly noble and a loving man. I guess it depends on what your exact definition of good is. I believe Huck is another one of those frauds, who tries so hard to make people think he something he is not. His apology was not sincere. It was nothing more than a political stunt, as the one he pulled in Iowa, when he decided to do the right thing at the right time and at the very last minute and not run that add against Romney, even though he leaked it to the media and it was full of dishonesty.

So Mormons and people who defend all faiths, Catholic, Jewish, Evangelical or whatever the faith, should not believe for a minute, that Huckabee likes the Mormon religion or his apology was sincere. This is man who knows many of the basic Mormon doctrines better than some Mormons, especially knew memebers. He knew exactly what he was doing when he asked the New York Times reporter if Mormons believe Satan and Jesus are or were brothers. In my opinion, this a threat to the very ideals and founding principles of our nation and to people of all faiths, for someone to be throwing this religious test, against a man, who loves America and a group of people “LDS” who also are love America.

The reason Mike Huckabee shows such a disdain for the first credible and electable Mormon is part of a strategy. Romney in some respects is a symbol. He is a Mormon and attacking that symbol rallies those who are either skeptical or just hate or dislike Mormons or those who simply prefer an Evangelical over a Mormon and believe me, this is bigger than people think. One more point. It also fuels skepticism among those who would vote for Romney and like him personally. Huckabee knows what he is doing.

There was a study by a major University. I think in Cali. You can look it up or maybe I will later, but the study found that the flip flop thing sticks to Romney, because of his religion and that people used that as an excuse, when in fact they did not want a Mormon President. It even found that people who had no problem with Mormons or even liked Mormons, were influenced by the flip flop charge, because of the media obsessively playing it around the clock, BEING THAT THEY KNEW, IT WAS WORKING. Heck, there were a few times when I caught the bug and said “Romney, what the hell did you do this time, can’t you be more careful with your words?”. Most of it exaggerations and lies. Negative energy is very powerful and can sway the strongest amongst us.

I lived in South Carolina. I went door to door selling Pest Control and I talked to hundreds and hundreds of people and Huckabee’s strategy worked very well. They did not know I was Mormon, but I would play it like I was just a regular Joe, from New York, being that I just moved from there, wanting to talk about politics. This was in the summer and fall of 2007. Many mentioned Huckabee by name and that he was there guy, because he will stop the Mormon. Basically, believe it or not, it was that blunt sometimes and sometimes not so blunt, but I could see through those who had a problem with the religion and almost everyone was voting for Huckabee, who used the skepticism against the LDS religion, to catapult him to the position he is now in and his win Iowa. I was surprised to see how normal these people were.

Many were likable and not seeming like they would be bigots. Looked responsible, like they had big jobs and some did, some tried to hide there bigotry, not sure of me. Many however, I could smell the bigotry when Romney’s name came up.

I want to dispute fellow Mormons who want to be peacemakers and want to believe what they perceive or think as the best about fellow Mormons and exactly what fellow Mormons would do in the future. First, I agree that many Mormons would vote for Huckabee. I am not so foolish to act like I know the exact percentage. I am smart enough and have talked to enough Mormons to know, he for surely would not get all Mormons who normally vote Republican, to vote for him. Actually, I think he would lose 40 to 65 percent for sure and I am very certain, especially if this whole drama of Mormons not being allowed, is on display again, enough of them would stay home, that Utah and even more certain, states that surround Utah would go blue.

A University in Utah did a poll and Mormons very much dislike how Huckabee used their sacred beliefs in the campaign and some are more aware than others, as to the extent he used it, including leaders at the highest levels of the Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. They are not dumb men and a few have made subtle remarks, such as Elder’s Packer and Ballard and probably others.

So Mormons who discount other Mormons feelings about Huckabee and say it is all emotional and I guess some is, let me explain. With me and many others, it is a well thought out and principled position we take, to chose not to vote for somebody who is so obsessed with our religion and Romney and clearly, does not want a Mormon President, which I will explain some of the reasons why. Matter of fact, Huck was one of many Evangelcals who did not even want Romney as VP. Every single person pushing for this was a Huckabee supporter, one was actually a former Romney supporter, who has pathetically offered his repentance to Evangelical leaders.

Before I go any further, I want to make the point that I do not hate Huckabee, like I do not hate President Clinton or many other people I consider as less than praiseworthy. The argument could be made that Huckabee is a better man than Clinton, but then again, as a Mormon, Clinton does not have the kind of disdain and opposition to my sacred religious beliefs, as does Mike Huckabee, who attended a Sothern Baptist Convention in Salt Lake City, in the late 90’s. May I add the underlying purpose of the convention was to smear Mormons in their own back yard, much of what was said was true stuff, being taken out of context and some was just the typical lies we Mormons have heard all to often. Oh, by the way, Huckabee was the keynote speaker.

I’m not so sure this is about the past, as some would suggest. If this did not have very likely future implications, I would let it go. I am not insecure in my faith, myself or Romney and actually am more confident than I will ever explain, when it comes to Romney.

If Romney loses the nomination a second time and anti Mormon bigotry is perceived as the number one reason or the main cause and Mike Huckabee won the nomination, which he will not and I am only making a point, I will say with certainty, Mormons will feel even stronger than last time and no, I do not speak for all Mormons, but anyone who doubts this, does not know what they are talking about. Mike Huckabee will lose enough of the Mormon vote, to make sure many states go blue, without a doubt.

It’s not the Mormons playing the religion card and doing the bigotry. Utah is where Bush, an Evangelical, is the most poplular, but I do not think LDS will allow it again and no, I am not saying there is not other reasons people would vote against Romney, but anyone with a brain and who is honest, will understand it is his biggest obstacle.

There is a lot I am leaving out and will leave that to people to comment on. Probably a topic people do not want to face. I just want to say, there is nothing more I would want than to heal the rift between some Evangelicals and their feelings against Mormons. I understand that for the sake of 2012, we need to unite, but I think this is a proper forum about political ramifications and it is the right time to address this. We have a lot of time before the primaries and the general election and an awfully lot is going to happen. So let’s hope there is some respect and some civility in the coming days and that Mormons will be recognized as a jewel to the Republican Party and that there is forgiveness and friendship between Huck and Romney. Let’s wait and see, if Huckabee will invite Romney on his show and put the past behind and let go of these negative feelings, we all know he has.

I will vote for many evangelicals, except Huckabee. Palin, Bush, Pawlenty, Perry I think is one, he talks like one, and many others I will vote for, but I cannot vote for someone who is against who I am to the very core. That I cannot do and would rather leave things in God’s hands at that point and I have a lot of faith that the lord has all nations in his hands, even though it does not always seem that way. Point is, I have very rational and principled thoughts, on why I will not vote for Huckabee, deeper than can be explained.

Sometimes, nations, like individuals, need trials and I believe the Obama Presidency is already one of the greatest blessings in disguise this nation has had in a while. If Obama care passes, it will set this nation off and it will be repealed and if it don’t pass, his failure and lack of focus on jobs is going to wake people up, along with how extreme he is coming across. States rights is going to be a growing sentiment, on an encroaching Federal Government

I do not say this as someone who has any kind of worry, Huck will win and Romney will lose. Carma or whatever you want to call it, seems like it is against Huckabee and for so many reasons, I believe things are working out like clock work for Romney and providence is behind it, as it was with George Washington and James Madison and the founding of this country. So no, Huckabee does not worry me in the slightest. I simply am making some points. I am very positive and very excited about the future and what I believe it holds. I believe it is Romney’s destiny to be the next President. I just think Huckabee should not be allowed to get away with this and that his supporters should realize, many Mormons think Huck believes they do not belong

For the record, I have informed all my family and friends that should Mr. Huckabee win the Presidential nomination in 2012 to run against Barack Obama, I will be forming or joining a “Mormons for Huckabee” group and will do all in my power to support others to vote for said Mr. Huckabee. Those are the only conditions that I can imagine in which I will by voting for MH.

I find Mr. Carter’s comment that Mormons won’t vote for MH disingenuous. I was inclined toward MH and made the effort to look at some of his positions and his record as governor. I will admit that I was not particularly happy with what I found out. After watching MH’s lack of graciousness, his little floating cross ads, and his comments about Mormon beliefs, I was actually offended.

The fact that MH said things about Mormons as a Baptist preacher would not necessarily have prevented me from voting for him; indeed, it goes with the job description, doesn’t it? However, as a sitting governor MH chose to be the keynote speaker at a Baptist conference in Salt Lake City. This shows a lack of judgment that is inexcusable. A person in an important elected office really should not be involved in this type of activity.

I reject the idea that MH is a victim of any kind. He has continued to act in an ungracious manner, which is very unimpressive to me. Politics is a blood sport, one in which MH gave as good as he got. I don’t care how he feels, it’s how he continues to act and what he says that is so unimpressive.

By the way, while I simply will not trouble to list every inconsistency that MH had on the campaign trail, I would like to point out that MH claimed to have a degree, which he does not have. He also changed his position dramatically on the border in the space of a few weeks. I live in a border state and care about that issue. I saw a dramatic flip-flop from Mr. Huckabee. No, MH is not a victim.

I attended Mitt Romney’s book signing recently. I was overwhelmed by his graciousness as he personally thanked each one of us for buying his book. I also sense that when one meets him personally, he is not a man to be easily ignored. It simply isn’t possible.

Mr. Carter, I see that so much of what has been written has been taken personally by you. I don’t think that anyone on this thread so far has intended that to be the case, including me. I don’t know why you are so very sensitive about this issue, but I am concerned that your burden on this matter is heavy or everything wouldn’t be so personal. There is Someone who reminds us to Come unto me all ye that are heavy laden and I will give you rest. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. I urge you to let it go.

I think you’re reading too much into my comment. I’m not skeptical, so much as unfamiliar with the depth of his religious convinctions. As with most people, I take him at his word when he says he is sincere about his faith. But I can’t make declarative statements (i.e., “Romney is a sincere Mormon) about matters that I am not familiar with.

Personally, I doubt that either Mike Huckabee or Barack Obama have the leadership ability and the entrepreneurial acumen to have done that.

I think running a state for 13 years is a more impressive achievement. In fact, I’m more impressed with Romney’s brief tenure as a governor than I am with his role in the taxpayer-funded sinkhole that was the Winter Olympics.

The kerfuffle over whether George Romney actually walked down a street with Martin Luther King is a red herring to distract from the very real steps Mitt’s father took to use his political office to actively support racial equality.

If the issue was about George Romney, that would be true. But no one is talking about George Romney’s civil rights record. We are talking about Mitt Romney’s propensity to exagerrate and tell outright lies when he thinks it will make him look good. So your red herring charge is itself a red herring.

Lowell Your attacks on Romney’s character are beyond strident and really seem to be beneath you.

I am not normally the kind of guy that gets so heated about politicians. But this is a unique situation. My stridencey is a direct result of having to deal with the Romney campaign during the last Republican primary. The Romney team was one of the slimiest political staffs that I—or more experienced people—had ever seen. They made the Clinton’s look sweet in comparison.

Ever wonder why every other candidate despised Mitt when he was on the campaign trail? It was because he and his team were some of the dirtiest, most dishonest people any of us had ever seen. (If you think I’m harsh, you should see what the McCain people think of him.)

Part of my animus is due to the frustration I felt during the campaign. Gov. Huckabee issued an edict to the staff that we were not to publicly speak ill of Romney and would not respond directly to his lies and attacks. (Huckabee himself often had trouble holding his tongue, but he made sure we did.) Romney’s follks knew this and took full advantage of it. Because of their behavior—and his as their leader—I have absolutely no respect for him or his people. (This is definitely one of those times when I wish I hadn’t signed a nondisclosure agreement saying that I could not give details about what happened during the campaign.)

I hope I have not attacked Mike Huckabee that way; I will avoid doing so in the future.

This isn’t a Huckabee/Romney issue. If Huckabee had acted as despicablly as Romney had then you would be warranted in such criticism.

I think you and many of his other supporters mean well, but I suspect if he were to become president you’d be just as disillusioned as many Obama supporters. Romeny simply isn’t the man you think he is.

TVHall However, if the individual questioning Romney’s veracity gives Huckabee a pass on that issue, the likelihood that their problem is actually his religious beliefs increases exponentially.

For this to be true, we have to assume that Huckabee is on record as lying as often as Romney is. If that is the case, I’d be interested in seeing it.

Let me add two last words on the religious angle. If you want Romney to suceed then you have to stop playing the religious card. It didn’t help for evangelicals to whine that people refused to support Huckabee because he was an evangelical or Democrats to complain that people were supporting Obama because he was black. It’s not helping Mitt either. (On that point, I don’t mind so much. But it also hurts his supporters, many of who I like.)

When every person who criticizes your candidate has to first prove that they are not hostile to Mormons, then you’ve lost. No one will take you seriously—even when there are real concerns about religious bias.

Second, it’s ironic that people assume that I have a bias against his faith when the truth is that Romney’s Mormonism is about the only thing I like about the guy. The Mormons I know personally are some of the most upright, decent, and honest people I know. They are extremely civic-minded and other-directed. Romney is dishonest and will do almost anything to get elected, but I suspect he’d be much worse if his faith didn’t prevent him from falling completley over the edge. (I suspect that if Romney wasn’t LDS he’d be a mix of John Kerry and Bill Clinton.)

If that individual voices the same distrust of Huckabee, then it is likely that their concern is unrelated to religion. (Or at least Romney’s in particular) However, if the individual questioning Romney’s veracity gives Huckabee a pass on that issue, the likelihood that their problem is actually his religious beliefs increases exponentially.

Sorry you find this personal – I don’t. You seconded Belz. We have pointed that out on this blog numerous times since you did so and today is the first time you have reacted at all, let alone retracted. That’s not personal Joe, that’s what you wrote and published, and given your level of influence in the Evangelical community, it needed to be addressed. All I did was point out the inconsistency in your writings and ask you to resolve it.

Yes, I support Romney, but nothing in my statements in this post about your statements defend Romney per se – they address the issue of religious discrimination. You can rest assured that had Meridian Magazine published a piece declaring Evangelicals are liars becasue of their lack of ecclesiastical structure – I’d have been all over that too. And if a Mormon blogger had seconded it – I’d go there as well.

You have now repudiated the Belz piece which is all that I have asked. As far as I am concerned, the issue is closed save as it remains a historical fact and whatever influence it may or may not have had in the last electoral cycle cannot be undone.

Joe, we are going to have to agree to disagree. Your attacks on Romney’s character are beyond strident and really seem to be beneath you. I hope I have not attacked Mike Huckabee that way; I will avoid doing so in the future. By the way, I think coltakashi has made some interesting responses to your ad hominem attacks on Romney.