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	<title>Comments on: The Quiet Weekend &#8211; Sort Of</title>
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	<description>&#34;Religion, Politics, the Presidency: Commentary by a Mormon, an Evangelical, and an Orthodox Christian&#34;</description>
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		<title>By: Whispers See Print, Evangelical Republicans Asunder, Blame The Christians, and more&#8230; &#124; Article VI Blog &#124; John Schroeder</title>
		<link>http://www.article6blog.com/2009/12/07/the-quiet-weekend-sort-of/comment-page-1/#comment-13497</link>
		<dc:creator>Whispers See Print, Evangelical Republicans Asunder, Blame The Christians, and more&#8230; &#124; Article VI Blog &#124; John Schroeder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:42:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.article6blog.com/?p=1699#comment-13497</guid>
		<description>[...] Comments coltakashi on The Quiet Weekend &#8211; Sort OfJohn Schroeder on The Quiet Weekend &#8211; Sort OfDoug King on The Quiet Weekend &#8211; Sort [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Comments coltakashi on The Quiet Weekend &#8211; Sort OfJohn Schroeder on The Quiet Weekend &#8211; Sort OfDoug King on The Quiet Weekend &#8211; Sort [...]</p>
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		<title>By: coltakashi</title>
		<link>http://www.article6blog.com/2009/12/07/the-quiet-weekend-sort-of/comment-page-1/#comment-13496</link>
		<dc:creator>coltakashi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 18:02:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.article6blog.com/?p=1699#comment-13496</guid>
		<description>Carter said: &quot;One point that I did raise, though, was how that its [sic] strange that we can bring up issues about evangelicals (e.g., Sarah Palin’s eschatology) but if someone even asks questions about Mormonism (e.g., Are Satan and Jesus brothers?) then they’re a bigot. It’s a strange double standard.&quot;

When you ask someone who is NOT a Mormon a question like that, you are obviously not seeking a real understanding of Mormon doctrine, but telling the reporter you are talking to, and the people who read his article, that you think Mormons believe outlandish, even offensive things.  You are not seeking to improve your understanding of Mormons, or give them an opportunity to respond, perhaps with a question about your own belief in the existence of satan and his origins (Was he created by the triune Jesus?  Is that a more desirable theological position, since it places full responsibility for the evil Satan does on God?)    

Belz said: &quot;Do these officials hold to the fantastical 1827 golden tablets of Mormon founder Joseph Smith—or not? Well, they seem to say: We believe it when we want to, and we don’t when it’s less convenient.&quot; 

According to Joseph Smith, once the work of translation was completed, the angel Moroni, a resurrected prophet who died circa 425 AD as the last custodian of the record, took the metal plates into his custody again.  This happened before the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized in April 1830.  The lack of the availability of the plates did not present a problem for the thousands of people who joined the CJCLDS Church from 1830 to 1844 when Smith was martyred with his brother Hyrum, by a mob that invaded the jail in Carthage, illinois, where they were being held without bail on silly charges of &quot;treason against the State of Illinois&quot; (Who was illinois at war with?).  It was not the first time in history that government was complicit in the killing of an innocent man.  

When they had voluntarily returned to Illinois to submit peacefully to arrest, Hyrum had read from the Book of Mormon to seek comfort, turning down the corner of the page he read.  In the jail, Joseph bore his testimony to the jailer about the origins of the Book of Mormon.  Hyrum had seen and handled the plates, and his testimony and the testimony of 10 other men attests to the reality of their existence.  That is a testimony that they were all true to until their respective deaths, some of them 50 years later.  It is a testimony that no one has been able to explain, other than the simple point that they sincerely reported what they had seen and &quot;hefted&quot;.  Anyone who wants to attack the Book of Mormon has to explain why, if it was a conscious fraud, the people who were involved with it were believers in it even when they faced death.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carter said: &#8220;One point that I did raise, though, was how that its [sic] strange that we can bring up issues about evangelicals (e.g., Sarah Palin’s eschatology) but if someone even asks questions about Mormonism (e.g., Are Satan and Jesus brothers?) then they’re a bigot. It’s a strange double standard.&#8221;</p>
<p>When you ask someone who is NOT a Mormon a question like that, you are obviously not seeking a real understanding of Mormon doctrine, but telling the reporter you are talking to, and the people who read his article, that you think Mormons believe outlandish, even offensive things.  You are not seeking to improve your understanding of Mormons, or give them an opportunity to respond, perhaps with a question about your own belief in the existence of satan and his origins (Was he created by the triune Jesus?  Is that a more desirable theological position, since it places full responsibility for the evil Satan does on God?)    </p>
<p>Belz said: &#8220;Do these officials hold to the fantastical 1827 golden tablets of Mormon founder Joseph Smith—or not? Well, they seem to say: We believe it when we want to, and we don’t when it’s less convenient.&#8221; </p>
<p>According to Joseph Smith, once the work of translation was completed, the angel Moroni, a resurrected prophet who died circa 425 AD as the last custodian of the record, took the metal plates into his custody again.  This happened before the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized in April 1830.  The lack of the availability of the plates did not present a problem for the thousands of people who joined the CJCLDS Church from 1830 to 1844 when Smith was martyred with his brother Hyrum, by a mob that invaded the jail in Carthage, illinois, where they were being held without bail on silly charges of &#8220;treason against the State of Illinois&#8221; (Who was illinois at war with?).  It was not the first time in history that government was complicit in the killing of an innocent man.  </p>
<p>When they had voluntarily returned to Illinois to submit peacefully to arrest, Hyrum had read from the Book of Mormon to seek comfort, turning down the corner of the page he read.  In the jail, Joseph bore his testimony to the jailer about the origins of the Book of Mormon.  Hyrum had seen and handled the plates, and his testimony and the testimony of 10 other men attests to the reality of their existence.  That is a testimony that they were all true to until their respective deaths, some of them 50 years later.  It is a testimony that no one has been able to explain, other than the simple point that they sincerely reported what they had seen and &#8220;hefted&#8221;.  Anyone who wants to attack the Book of Mormon has to explain why, if it was a conscious fraud, the people who were involved with it were believers in it even when they faced death.</p>
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		<title>By: John Schroeder</title>
		<link>http://www.article6blog.com/2009/12/07/the-quiet-weekend-sort-of/comment-page-1/#comment-13495</link>
		<dc:creator>John Schroeder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 13:54:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.article6blog.com/?p=1699#comment-13495</guid>
		<description>Doug:

You are quoting Lowell there, not John, but it is an accurate recollection of the interview.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doug:</p>
<p>You are quoting Lowell there, not John, but it is an accurate recollection of the interview.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug King</title>
		<link>http://www.article6blog.com/2009/12/07/the-quiet-weekend-sort-of/comment-page-1/#comment-13494</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug King</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 05:43:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.article6blog.com/?p=1699#comment-13494</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;Joe told us it was just fine, in his opinion, if people voted against Romney solely on religious grounds.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I suppose it was equally fine in his opinion to vote against Hillary solely on gender grounds and against Obama on racial grounds.  He may not have actually said those words, but he&#039;s using the same logic.  Such statements are textbook examples of prejudice.  I just hope John represented Mr. Carter&#039;s views fairly.  

No one is surprised when they occasionally encounter ordinary Americans who think that way.  But it&#039;s disturbing when someone like Mike Huckabee who claims to be serious Presidential material surrounds himself with people like that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>&#8220;Joe told us it was just fine, in his opinion, if people voted against Romney solely on religious grounds.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>I suppose it was equally fine in his opinion to vote against Hillary solely on gender grounds and against Obama on racial grounds.  He may not have actually said those words, but he&#8217;s using the same logic.  Such statements are textbook examples of prejudice.  I just hope John represented Mr. Carter&#8217;s views fairly.  </p>
<p>No one is surprised when they occasionally encounter ordinary Americans who think that way.  But it&#8217;s disturbing when someone like Mike Huckabee who claims to be serious Presidential material surrounds himself with people like that.</p>
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		<title>By: Tweets that mention The Quiet Weekend – Sort Of &#124; Article VI Blog &#124; John Schroeder -- Topsy.com</title>
		<link>http://www.article6blog.com/2009/12/07/the-quiet-weekend-sort-of/comment-page-1/#comment-13492</link>
		<dc:creator>Tweets that mention The Quiet Weekend – Sort Of &#124; Article VI Blog &#124; John Schroeder -- Topsy.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 14:47:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.article6blog.com/?p=1699#comment-13492</guid>
		<description>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Mitt Romney in 2012! and Article VI Blog, Article VI Blog. Article VI Blog said: #hhrs New @ Article VI Blog:: The Quiet Weekend - Sort Of http://www.article6blog.com/2009/12/07/the-quiet-weekend-sort-of/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Mitt Romney in 2012! and Article VI Blog, Article VI Blog. Article VI Blog said: #hhrs New @ Article VI Blog:: The Quiet Weekend &#8211; Sort Of <a href="http://www.article6blog.com/2009/12/07/the-quiet-weekend-sort-of/" rel="nofollow">http://www.article6blog.com/2009/12/07/the-quiet-weekend-sort-of/</a> [...]</p>
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