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	<title>Comments on: Megachurches, Reactions, Counter-Reactions and More&#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://www.article6blog.com/2008/08/19/megachurches-reactions-counter-reactions-and-more/</link>
	<description>&#34;Religion, Politics, the Presidency: Commentary by a Mormon, an Evangelical, and an Orthodox Christian&#34;</description>
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		<title>By: CarlH</title>
		<link>http://www.article6blog.com/2008/08/19/megachurches-reactions-counter-reactions-and-more/comment-page-1/#comment-12739</link>
		<dc:creator>CarlH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 22:50:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Despite the slowness of responses coming in to the &lt;a href=&quot;http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/2008/08/saddleback_forum_faith_and_pol/all.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;On Faith question about the Saddleback Church Forum&lt;/a&gt;, some of the panelists have some very insightful things to say that are worth reading, both confirming John&#039;s interpretation of what this really seems to have been all about, as well as re-articulating how inappropriate it seems to subject candidates for public office to a religious fitting room.  Surprising (frightening?) myself, I found much to agree with in the comments of some typically viewed as part of the religious left--apart from their paranoia about faith in public life.  Unfortunately, the Saddleback Church Forum may, despite Obama&#039;s willingness to participate (and perhaps precisely because of some views of how poorly he did), become an iconic moment for the Left on which to mobilize yet again their attempts to purge (or at least delegitimize) faith and religious expressions and motivations from the public square.

As for the Foster book, I really can&#039;t improve on Lowell&#039;s comments from the LDS perspective.  And John&#039;s overall reaction is pretty much spot on.  Having not read the book (and certainly not planning to do so), I don&#039;t know to what extent Foster may be attempting to &quot;seek acknowledgment of religious claims out of this.&quot;  The title is, at the very least, unfortunate in that respect because, for me (and I believe for many other CJCLDS members), the &quot;different God&quot; assertion evokes a visceral reaction very similar to that of the all-too-promiscuous use of the word &quot;cult.&quot; That is because it ignores--or at least glosses over--an important distinction between the &lt;em&gt;understanding&lt;/em&gt; of the God whom both groups seek to understand and follow more perfectly, and the &lt;em&gt;identity&lt;/em&gt; of God.  This is not to suggest that a correct understanding of the nature of God is not itself a significant, and perhaps even an essential, aspect of the exercise of faith.  But the language choice itself partakes of caricature and marginalization, as opposed to exposition and reasoned discussion of very real differences.  Why is it not sufficient, in the interest of dialog (and even evangelization, if you will) to state the problem as one of a &quot;different understanding of the nature God&quot; or even &quot;a profoundly different understanding&quot;?  The answer is at the heart of Mormon objections to the phrase.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Despite the slowness of responses coming in to the <a href="http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/2008/08/saddleback_forum_faith_and_pol/all.html" rel="nofollow">On Faith question about the Saddleback Church Forum</a>, some of the panelists have some very insightful things to say that are worth reading, both confirming John&#8217;s interpretation of what this really seems to have been all about, as well as re-articulating how inappropriate it seems to subject candidates for public office to a religious fitting room.  Surprising (frightening?) myself, I found much to agree with in the comments of some typically viewed as part of the religious left&#8211;apart from their paranoia about faith in public life.  Unfortunately, the Saddleback Church Forum may, despite Obama&#8217;s willingness to participate (and perhaps precisely because of some views of how poorly he did), become an iconic moment for the Left on which to mobilize yet again their attempts to purge (or at least delegitimize) faith and religious expressions and motivations from the public square.</p>
<p>As for the Foster book, I really can&#8217;t improve on Lowell&#8217;s comments from the LDS perspective.  And John&#8217;s overall reaction is pretty much spot on.  Having not read the book (and certainly not planning to do so), I don&#8217;t know to what extent Foster may be attempting to &#8220;seek acknowledgment of religious claims out of this.&#8221;  The title is, at the very least, unfortunate in that respect because, for me (and I believe for many other CJCLDS members), the &#8220;different God&#8221; assertion evokes a visceral reaction very similar to that of the all-too-promiscuous use of the word &#8220;cult.&#8221; That is because it ignores&#8211;or at least glosses over&#8211;an important distinction between the <em>understanding</em> of the God whom both groups seek to understand and follow more perfectly, and the <em>identity</em> of God.  This is not to suggest that a correct understanding of the nature of God is not itself a significant, and perhaps even an essential, aspect of the exercise of faith.  But the language choice itself partakes of caricature and marginalization, as opposed to exposition and reasoned discussion of very real differences.  Why is it not sufficient, in the interest of dialog (and even evangelization, if you will) to state the problem as one of a &#8220;different understanding of the nature God&#8221; or even &#8220;a profoundly different understanding&#8221;?  The answer is at the heart of Mormon objections to the phrase.</p>
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		<title>By: Rusty</title>
		<link>http://www.article6blog.com/2008/08/19/megachurches-reactions-counter-reactions-and-more/comment-page-1/#comment-12738</link>
		<dc:creator>Rusty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 17:24:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Lowell is right in that very few people (not just Mormons) will take interest in Foster&#039;s book.  Those who follow politics closely already know what happened, those who don&#039;t follow politics closely won&#039;t want to read a political/religious analysis of what happened.  There will always be those that can&#039;t get passed the idea that others don&#039;t/won&#039;t agree with them (on both sides).  They won&#039;t be able to let it go and will keep returning to the subject.

Anyone can write a book and speak their opinion.  I don&#039;t think Mr. Foster&#039;s book will be that last on this subject, and it definitely won&#039;t be the last book trying to pull religion into the middle of politics.  Bennion Spencer, running for Congressman in Utah&#039;s 3rd Congressional District, has written a book he is waiting to publish called &quot;How would Jesus Vote&quot; and the local press has had a hayday on that news.

I&#039;m not sure I agree with Lowell that &quot;it is foreign to Latter-day Saint culture to whine or complain, or to enshrine persecution.&quot;  It is contrary to the doctrine of the church, but the culture is made up of doctrine mixed with human nature; and there are large pockets of folks who have trouble letting go, who like to revisit and savor passed wrongs like a fine vintage wine. (I&#039;m even related to a few.)  We can only try to keep the dialog open and put out the best arguments we can about where and when religious specificity truly matters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lowell is right in that very few people (not just Mormons) will take interest in Foster&#8217;s book.  Those who follow politics closely already know what happened, those who don&#8217;t follow politics closely won&#8217;t want to read a political/religious analysis of what happened.  There will always be those that can&#8217;t get passed the idea that others don&#8217;t/won&#8217;t agree with them (on both sides).  They won&#8217;t be able to let it go and will keep returning to the subject.</p>
<p>Anyone can write a book and speak their opinion.  I don&#8217;t think Mr. Foster&#8217;s book will be that last on this subject, and it definitely won&#8217;t be the last book trying to pull religion into the middle of politics.  Bennion Spencer, running for Congressman in Utah&#8217;s 3rd Congressional District, has written a book he is waiting to publish called &#8220;How would Jesus Vote&#8221; and the local press has had a hayday on that news.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure I agree with Lowell that &#8220;it is foreign to Latter-day Saint culture to whine or complain, or to enshrine persecution.&#8221;  It is contrary to the doctrine of the church, but the culture is made up of doctrine mixed with human nature; and there are large pockets of folks who have trouble letting go, who like to revisit and savor passed wrongs like a fine vintage wine. (I&#8217;m even related to a few.)  We can only try to keep the dialog open and put out the best arguments we can about where and when religious specificity truly matters.</p>
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		<title>By: jmh</title>
		<link>http://www.article6blog.com/2008/08/19/megachurches-reactions-counter-reactions-and-more/comment-page-1/#comment-12737</link>
		<dc:creator>jmh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:47:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Have you ever seen the social dynamic where someone endlessly jabs another person with snarky comments, and then when the person finally reacts says &quot; you&#039;re just too sensitve&quot;?
Yeah.
VICTIM??? 
I don&#039;t think so.
Mad as hell and not going to take it anymore?
You bet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you ever seen the social dynamic where someone endlessly jabs another person with snarky comments, and then when the person finally reacts says &#8221; you&#8217;re just too sensitve&#8221;?<br />
Yeah.<br />
VICTIM???<br />
I don&#8217;t think so.<br />
Mad as hell and not going to take it anymore?<br />
You bet.</p>
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