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	<title>Comments on: Apparently It Is Theo-nerd Day Today, but there is more&#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://www.article6blog.com/2007/12/20/apparently-it-is-theo-nerd-day-today-but-there-is-more/</link>
	<description>&#34;Religion, Politics, the Presidency: Commentary by a Mormon, an Evangelical, and an Orthodox Christian&#34;</description>
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		<title>By: coltakashi</title>
		<link>http://www.article6blog.com/2007/12/20/apparently-it-is-theo-nerd-day-today-but-there-is-more/comment-page-1/#comment-11692</link>
		<dc:creator>coltakashi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 23:32:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.article6blog.com/2007/12/20/apparently-it-is-theo-nerd-day-today-but-there-is-more/#comment-11692</guid>
		<description>The Slate article about Southern Baptsist vs. Mormons is pretty accurate and informative.  One thing it makes clear is that Reverend Huckabee cannot be honest when he denies knowing much about Mormonism, since, as the story relates, in the 1980s (when Huckabee was a pastor) the SBC realized that 40% of Mormon converts in the US had apparently once been affiliated with Baptist congregations, and the SBC embarked on a vigorous program to educate pastors and members about the dangers of Mormonism.  I have no doubt that among his many sermons as a pastor, Huckabee has denounced Mormonism any number of times.  If he doesn&#039;t want to be associated with calling several million prospective voters--with campaign money-- &quot;cultists&quot;, he should be more circumspect about attacking a candidate who is one of their number on the sole grounds of being one of their number.  

The article is particularly clear that the SBC&#039;s campaign of badmouthing Mormons has elicited no response from the Mormons themselves.  The Mormons have &quot;turned the other cheek&quot;.  I think they got that advice from the Bible.  

The vivid statement that the Mormon temples in Dallas and Atlanta were &quot;throwing down the gauntlet&quot; is hogwash.  Temples are an expense for the Church that is made when they can be efficiently utilized by a nearby population of existing Mormons.  Since those who are not active Mormons can&#039;t even go inside the temples after the public open house, they are hardly significant means of proselyting.  They simply serve as evidence that the Mormon population in a city has reached &quot;critical mass&quot;.  After all, the newest temples are in the heart of Mormon country, in Rexburg, Idaho (home of BYU-Idaho) and two new temples in southern Salt Lake County, each only a fifteen minute drive from temples to the north and south.  The offense taken by Baptist ministers at seeing these temples is in the mind of the beholder.  Temple construction does give the biggest bigots an opportunity to reveal themselves.  

Another point made in the article is that the SBC is the de facto church of the South, which raises the question of its responsibility for the South&#039;s history of slavery, segregation and racism.  Mormons had a largely theoretical racial distinction in their internal church priesthood that was ended 30 years ago, which did not apply to Indians, Hispanics, Asians or Polynesians, never had segregated congregations, included few people who ever owned slaves and did not have government supported segregation or racial inequality in Utah.  There was never any need to &quot;desegregate&quot; the schools in Utah.  On the other hand, the South, where the SBC has been dominant for over a century, had all of the worst aspects of racial discrimination, and many racially segregated congregations even into the 1980s and beyond.  

I think what the SBC fails to realize is that their campaign attacking Mormons ends up producing MORE Mormons in the end due to two factors:  (1) IN my experience, at least one in ten Mormon converts first looked into the LDS Church because they became curious about a religion that could elicit such vehement denunciations.  The more SBC campaigns, the more of those kind of converts to Mormonism they generate, from all religions and none.  (2) Other people get disgusted at the hatred that they see encouraged by the anti-Mormon campaign, and their loyalty to the Baptists drops, making them more willing to listen to Mormon missionaries.  

According to non-Mormon, Evangelical Christian sociologist Rodney Stark, people are attracted to Mormonism because, among other factors, it offers them an opportunity to make sacrifices in a noble cause.  The SBC would be advised to create programs that attract people who are attracted by Mormonism, rather than attacking the Mormons.  My guess is that if they do demographic research, they will find that converts from the SBC to Mormonism are people who are generally more intent on living the gospel than average, who are not content to believe that their salvation is already guaranteed and they can now relax.  They are people who are willing to contemplate major changes in their lives, even ones that separate them from family and neighbors, in the cause of what they believe is truth.  In short, they are some of the best Christians among the Baptists, and they are being attracted to a church that does not denigrate other churches, but simply offers a challenging religion that entails real effort in the enterprise of seeking to achieve &quot;the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.&quot;  

This point also goes to the central criticism of Mormonism, that it is &quot;not Christian&quot;.  If 40% of American converts to Mormonism used to be Baptists, who attended Baptist services and Bible study groups, and who understand the Baptist concept of who Christ is, then they have apparently decided that Mormonism IS Christianity, and meets the criteria of Christianity that they were previously taught.  I think you can confirm that by a survey of any such converts.  They KNOW what a Baptist &quot;Christian&quot; is, and they also KNOW they are still Christians, even within the Mormon Church.  Ergo, they are Christians, and millions of Mormons are witnesses that they are still Christians.  

Some of the discussions in the pages of Christianity Today in recent months have concerned the unwillingness of many Evangelicals to accept the importance of spiritual communication apart from the text of the Bible.  Breakpoint commentary has spoken of a study that was done at one leading Megachurch which found that while the programs attracted many people, they did not necessarily turn them into Christians whose faith and behavior was measurably different from what it was when they walked in the door.  While many disagree with Mormon precepts, the CJCLDS does address these two issues with great effectiveness.  Since these are felt lacks in Evangelical Christianity that have been pointed out by Evangelical ministers themselves, perhaps the real reason for conversions from the SBC to Mormonism is the failure to address these needs.  

I therefore offer the hypothesis that the SBC is blaming the Mormons for a problem that is within itself.  The Mormons do not target Baptists (you can read the manual the missionaries use at lds.org, which does not &quot;target&quot; any other church&#039;s doctrines).  They are simply issuing a general invitation, and the reason so many Baptists accept is a function of their already existing discontent with their former religious affiliation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Slate article about Southern Baptsist vs. Mormons is pretty accurate and informative.  One thing it makes clear is that Reverend Huckabee cannot be honest when he denies knowing much about Mormonism, since, as the story relates, in the 1980s (when Huckabee was a pastor) the SBC realized that 40% of Mormon converts in the US had apparently once been affiliated with Baptist congregations, and the SBC embarked on a vigorous program to educate pastors and members about the dangers of Mormonism.  I have no doubt that among his many sermons as a pastor, Huckabee has denounced Mormonism any number of times.  If he doesn&#8217;t want to be associated with calling several million prospective voters&#8211;with campaign money&#8211; &#8220;cultists&#8221;, he should be more circumspect about attacking a candidate who is one of their number on the sole grounds of being one of their number.  </p>
<p>The article is particularly clear that the SBC&#8217;s campaign of badmouthing Mormons has elicited no response from the Mormons themselves.  The Mormons have &#8220;turned the other cheek&#8221;.  I think they got that advice from the Bible.  </p>
<p>The vivid statement that the Mormon temples in Dallas and Atlanta were &#8220;throwing down the gauntlet&#8221; is hogwash.  Temples are an expense for the Church that is made when they can be efficiently utilized by a nearby population of existing Mormons.  Since those who are not active Mormons can&#8217;t even go inside the temples after the public open house, they are hardly significant means of proselyting.  They simply serve as evidence that the Mormon population in a city has reached &#8220;critical mass&#8221;.  After all, the newest temples are in the heart of Mormon country, in Rexburg, Idaho (home of BYU-Idaho) and two new temples in southern Salt Lake County, each only a fifteen minute drive from temples to the north and south.  The offense taken by Baptist ministers at seeing these temples is in the mind of the beholder.  Temple construction does give the biggest bigots an opportunity to reveal themselves.  </p>
<p>Another point made in the article is that the SBC is the de facto church of the South, which raises the question of its responsibility for the South&#8217;s history of slavery, segregation and racism.  Mormons had a largely theoretical racial distinction in their internal church priesthood that was ended 30 years ago, which did not apply to Indians, Hispanics, Asians or Polynesians, never had segregated congregations, included few people who ever owned slaves and did not have government supported segregation or racial inequality in Utah.  There was never any need to &#8220;desegregate&#8221; the schools in Utah.  On the other hand, the South, where the SBC has been dominant for over a century, had all of the worst aspects of racial discrimination, and many racially segregated congregations even into the 1980s and beyond.  </p>
<p>I think what the SBC fails to realize is that their campaign attacking Mormons ends up producing MORE Mormons in the end due to two factors:  (1) IN my experience, at least one in ten Mormon converts first looked into the LDS Church because they became curious about a religion that could elicit such vehement denunciations.  The more SBC campaigns, the more of those kind of converts to Mormonism they generate, from all religions and none.  (2) Other people get disgusted at the hatred that they see encouraged by the anti-Mormon campaign, and their loyalty to the Baptists drops, making them more willing to listen to Mormon missionaries.  </p>
<p>According to non-Mormon, Evangelical Christian sociologist Rodney Stark, people are attracted to Mormonism because, among other factors, it offers them an opportunity to make sacrifices in a noble cause.  The SBC would be advised to create programs that attract people who are attracted by Mormonism, rather than attacking the Mormons.  My guess is that if they do demographic research, they will find that converts from the SBC to Mormonism are people who are generally more intent on living the gospel than average, who are not content to believe that their salvation is already guaranteed and they can now relax.  They are people who are willing to contemplate major changes in their lives, even ones that separate them from family and neighbors, in the cause of what they believe is truth.  In short, they are some of the best Christians among the Baptists, and they are being attracted to a church that does not denigrate other churches, but simply offers a challenging religion that entails real effort in the enterprise of seeking to achieve &#8220;the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.&#8221;  </p>
<p>This point also goes to the central criticism of Mormonism, that it is &#8220;not Christian&#8221;.  If 40% of American converts to Mormonism used to be Baptists, who attended Baptist services and Bible study groups, and who understand the Baptist concept of who Christ is, then they have apparently decided that Mormonism IS Christianity, and meets the criteria of Christianity that they were previously taught.  I think you can confirm that by a survey of any such converts.  They KNOW what a Baptist &#8220;Christian&#8221; is, and they also KNOW they are still Christians, even within the Mormon Church.  Ergo, they are Christians, and millions of Mormons are witnesses that they are still Christians.  </p>
<p>Some of the discussions in the pages of Christianity Today in recent months have concerned the unwillingness of many Evangelicals to accept the importance of spiritual communication apart from the text of the Bible.  Breakpoint commentary has spoken of a study that was done at one leading Megachurch which found that while the programs attracted many people, they did not necessarily turn them into Christians whose faith and behavior was measurably different from what it was when they walked in the door.  While many disagree with Mormon precepts, the CJCLDS does address these two issues with great effectiveness.  Since these are felt lacks in Evangelical Christianity that have been pointed out by Evangelical ministers themselves, perhaps the real reason for conversions from the SBC to Mormonism is the failure to address these needs.  </p>
<p>I therefore offer the hypothesis that the SBC is blaming the Mormons for a problem that is within itself.  The Mormons do not target Baptists (you can read the manual the missionaries use at lds.org, which does not &#8220;target&#8221; any other church&#8217;s doctrines).  They are simply issuing a general invitation, and the reason so many Baptists accept is a function of their already existing discontent with their former religious affiliation.</p>
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		<title>By: JLFuller</title>
		<link>http://www.article6blog.com/2007/12/20/apparently-it-is-theo-nerd-day-today-but-there-is-more/comment-page-1/#comment-11684</link>
		<dc:creator>JLFuller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:18:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.article6blog.com/2007/12/20/apparently-it-is-theo-nerd-day-today-but-there-is-more/#comment-11684</guid>
		<description>The &lt;strong&gt;FOX news&lt;/strong&gt; questions piece was a hatchet job. I am surprised anyone at Church HQ responded. It surprises me that Fox did this. I can only assume some inexperienced kid, maybe an intern, was given the assignment to do some background and got confused with the difference between honest journalism and yellow journalism. But still, some editor put it up for all the world to see. You would never have this mess presented by Britt Hume or the real grown ups. 

The &lt;strong&gt;Seattle PI&lt;/strong&gt; has had a one-sided burn for the LDS Church for decades. Back in 1968 they had a full front page spread &quot;expose&quot; on the Church complete with above the fold 2 inch headlines and photos. Nothing new here. It seemed enormously out of proportion considering the paucity of membership there at the time. 

Huck&#039;s enlistment of pastors as part of his campaign strategy kind of borders on an invitation to the IRS doesn&#039;t it? 

When we see politicians using religion as an instrument of war, God suffers or so it seems to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The <strong>FOX news</strong> questions piece was a hatchet job. I am surprised anyone at Church HQ responded. It surprises me that Fox did this. I can only assume some inexperienced kid, maybe an intern, was given the assignment to do some background and got confused with the difference between honest journalism and yellow journalism. But still, some editor put it up for all the world to see. You would never have this mess presented by Britt Hume or the real grown ups. </p>
<p>The <strong>Seattle PI</strong> has had a one-sided burn for the LDS Church for decades. Back in 1968 they had a full front page spread &#8220;expose&#8221; on the Church complete with above the fold 2 inch headlines and photos. Nothing new here. It seemed enormously out of proportion considering the paucity of membership there at the time. </p>
<p>Huck&#8217;s enlistment of pastors as part of his campaign strategy kind of borders on an invitation to the IRS doesn&#8217;t it? </p>
<p>When we see politicians using religion as an instrument of war, God suffers or so it seems to me.</p>
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