Article VI Blog

"Religion, Politics, the Presidency: Commentary by a Mormon, an Evangelical, and an Orthodox Christian"

United States Constitution — Article VI:

"No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."

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  • Today’s Reading List – September 21, 2007

    Posted by: John Schroeder at 05:42 am, September 21st 2007     &mdash      Comment on this post »

    It was everywhere… 

    James Dobson announced that he won't be supporting Thompson.  David Brody tells it as does Marc Ambinder.  Here's the original AP story and some interesting comments from EFM.  Our friends at EFM seem to think this will land Dobson in the Romney camp, which makes sense except that prior comments on his part have painted him into a bit of a corner on The Question front – Brody more or less agrees with that analysis, and contends, as does Ambinder, that this puts Dobson in the Huckabee camp.  I agree.

    And that is just sad because it essentially takes a large portion of the Evangelical vote out of the primary.  Huckabee simply lacks the horses to carry the day.  VP, perhaps, and that may be Dobson's play, just making sure there is an Evangelical on the ticket, but in the end it is not helpful.

    We constantly talk about "litmus tests" when it comes to the left and judges and abortion.  Well, if we don't like it for them, we shouldn't do it ourselves.  A religious litmus test, even in the guise of an issue litmus test, limits our power, it does not enhance it.  I have heard leadership described as "seeing a parade and jumping in front of it."  A Huckabee move by Dobson strikes me as begging to add a float.  Not smart political leadership.

    LOWELL:  What's truly offensive about Dobson's approach is its underlying principle:  "Vote only for your co-religionist."  It's that kind of clannish thinking that has caused strife, sorrow, and bloodshed down through the centuries.  (For a recent example, think Northern Ireland.)  No, Dobson is not leading us down the road to sectarian warfare– not even close– but his worldview is very un-American.

    How so, you ask?  Last summer I spent a week in Philadelphia with my family.  As the descendant of Quakers myself, I was fascinated to learn more about William Penn, whom my forebears followed to the New World in the late 1600's. Penn and his fellow Quakers had suffered greatly for their faith in England, and so he had a particular goal in mind when he established the City of Philadelphia:

    The meaning, City of Brotherly Love, represents the religious tolerance for all faiths that the colony stood for. Other groups came to America to seek religious freedom and then discriminated against other religions. Penn insisted that all religions were welcome in Pennsylvania. Now Penn could practice his "holy experiment" – not a sanctuary for Quakers, but a place where any religion was accepted.

    According to the information posted at Pennsylvania's historical sites I visited, there were more churches, of all different kinds, in Penn's special city than anywhere else in the world.  How American!

    Now, I wonder how comfortable James Dobson would have been in early Philadelphia?

    Don't know what to think about this…

    Yesterday's Times of London piece was insulting, and yet the follow-up, intended I think to be a counterpoint, managed to support Romney and REMAIN insulting.

    All faith is weird. So leave it out of politics.

    Somehow, I think there is a nicer way to have said that.

    Or this either…

    From The New Statesman comes an opening paragraph that is really interesting:

    But if there's one thing that unites the Christian right with the liberal left it's discomfort over Mitt Romney's membership of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

    I would modify that to "the Christian far right" but that is an interesting thesis to begin an article with on our subject.  But the piece soon tries way too hard to connect Warren Jeffs and the CJCLDS then, of all things, tries to justify polygamy.

    "Stunned at the stupidity" is about all I can say.

    LOWELL: It is instructive to bear in mind what The New Statesman is all about:

    The New Statesman was created in 1913 with the aim of permeating the educated and influential classes with socialist ideas.

    No, the magazine hasn't changed its mission.  So it's, well, a magazine with a point of view that's not particularly religion-friendly.

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    Today’s Reading List – September 20, 2007

    Posted by: John Schroeder at 05:44 am, September 20th 2007     &mdash      Comment on this post »

    Almost a year ago, I wrote on my "godblog" about the various definitions of the word "cult."  I did it there as a part of the early thinking about the subject of this blog, but really thought it was a religious discussion, not a political one, so decided that was the correct venue.  Apparently however, the bigs at the Washington Post and Newsweek think different as they found the essential question suitable for their "On Faith" feature.

    Various religious groups in America, from Jehovah's Witnesses to Mormons, have been considered cults at some point. What is the difference between a religion and a cult? What constitutes a real religion?

    There is something of VERY important note in that question – it assumes that all religions are not cults, and yet, if you refer to my post as linked above you find that the first definition of the word "cult" is, simply:

    a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.

    Therefore, by their very phrasing of the question they are supporting something we have contended here all along.  The word "cult" is used in the common vernacular as a perjorative, designed to delegitimize that to which it is attached.  This means the word must be used with great care.

    Lowell is our resident lawyer here, so maybe he can answer this question: Is there any case law that draws a distinction between "religion" and "cult?"  I can't think of any, which means the distinction simply cannot be drawn in political terms as they would be legally interchangeable.

    LOWELL addsI also am unaware of any such case law.  I can hardly imagine a context in which that issue would come before a court at all.

    All that said, I made my case about this thoroughly and completely in the series of posts I linked above, so I will not make it again.

    Responses to the question of the week appear throughout the week at "On Faith," but here are some highlights of what is up at the moment:

    Michael Otterson:

    The word “cult” in common usage is almost always a pejorative and, in my experience, usually used by someone with an agenda.

    Susan Jacoby:

    You might as well ask what is the difference between a "real" government and a political experiment. For the most part, the only difference between a "real religion" and a "cult" is longevity–a distinction that also applies to governments. If enough people believe in some form of the supernatural for a long enough period of time, we stop calling it a cult and start calling it a religion. Religions are cults that last.

     

    A more useful distinction would separate religions (or factions within religions) that attempt to control nearly every aspect of people's lives from religions that allow their members considerable latitude to choose different ways of existence without being driven from the fold.

    Susan Brooks Thistlethwaite:

    The term “cult” has gotten a bad rap in common usage, having been employed most often to describe drug-laden, mind-controlling groups. The term “cult” itself is neutral; cult is a term that merely means a cohesive group that the surrounding culture considers outside the mainstream. “Religion”, by contrast, is usually used to describe the solidly mainstream and institutionalized forms of faith.

    I could go on, but why?  Read the whole thing for yourself.

    Meanwhile, in London…

    The Times thereof does a "profile" that addresses only two things, The Question, and "flip-flop."  In an otherwise unremarkable, save for its tone, piece, they do in one paragraph go where no one has dared go before:

    Although he refuses to resile from his faith when it might be politically expedient to do so, Mr Romney’s acute sensitivity on the subject chimes with the other persistent charge against him, namely that he has “flip-flopped” on a range of social issues to attract support for the Republican nomination.

    And the line from flip-flop to Mormon is drawn, explicitly.  I am honestly surprised that such is the case.  The real strength of that connection lies in its assumed but never spoken nature – it is simply too easy to factually dispute since it relies on a presumption of Mormons being skilled, cooperative and consistent liars.  But then, this is the UK where distance and disinterest in American politics in general would make the likelihood of anyone bothering to do so pretty remote.

    Except of course, in the Internet age, some American blog might notice . . . .

    LOWELL:   One must appreciate the sheer nastiness of the reasoning:  Yes, Romney's seemingly shown character regarding his faith, but his . . . "sensitivity on the subject" still makes you wonder about all that flip-flopping. I mean, a guy who's that sensitive about religious questions directed at him must be untrustworthy.

    Huh?  There is no way to draw that connection, unless, of course, the writer's intent is simply malicious. 

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    Today’s Reading List – September 19, 2007

    Posted by: John Schroeder at 05:32 am, September 19th 2007     &mdash      1 Comment »

    Do I really need to write this?

    From the NYT Causus blog:

    Mr. Romney’s main rival for the Christian conservative vote among the leading Republican contenders is Fred D. Thompson, who opposes a federal marriage amendment and believes instead that states should settle this issue themselves. It is a stance that has caused alarm among some Christian conservative leaders.

    So to hear this guy tell it, as a conservative Christian my choices are between a guy that will vote and govern more or less like I would, but has a different religion, or a guy that has some pretty different views, but comes in something that resembles the same religious wrapper.  Now, the President's job is to govern, not preach.  Why is this choice difficult?  No seriously, why?

    Speaking of which…

    John McCain said:

    Republican presidential candidate John McCain said Monday that questions over whether he identifies himself as a Baptist or an Episcopalian are not as important as his overarching faith. "The most important thing is that I am a Christian," the Arizona senator told reporters following two campaign stops in this early voting state.

    Shot at Romney?  I'm gonna say, "No."  Given that there is confusion about what denomination McCain belongs to, based on comments he has made, I'm gonna guess he lacks the theological sophistication to even begin to imply anything about the "Are Mormon's Christians?" question.  Particularly in light of the Washington Times coverage of the issue:

    "When I read that I said 'You gotta be kidding,' " said David Jeffers, a lay preacher and author of "Understanding Evangelicals: A Guide to Jesusland," who said by not being baptized by immersion, Mr. McCain is out of step with the church he attends in Arizona.

    The comment does however express a lack of sophistication on the part of this candidate with regards to religion and politics.   Picking a specific religion as opposed to upholding the ideal of a public religion is problematic.

    I must comment that in general, the coverage of religion is just becoming unseemly.

    Here's evidence…

    In Florida over the weekend, there was a "value voters" debate.

    The biggest GOP names – Rudy Giuliani, Mitt Romney, John McCain and Fred Thompson – sat out the Values Voter Presidential Debate, citing scheduling conflicts. That didn't stop questioners from addressing the front-runners who didn't attend.

     

    Giuliani, Romney and McCain were all asked questions about abortion and gay rights. All, of course, went unanswered.

     

    "They will regret the decision," said Jan Folger, president of Faith2Action and a member of the debate host committee. "Because they snubbed us, they will not win, because we will not follow their lead."

    First of all, kudos to the Big Three and McCain for sitting this one out – particularly in light of that closing quote from Folger.  Methinks voters of this stripe have been reading their own press clippings a bit much.  I can guarantee you anyone that would say something that unclassy to the press in this situation would not give a Romney a second look simply because of his faith.  In sitting this out, the bigs are making clear what is, and what is not, legitimate political discourse in the realm of religion.

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    Today’s Reading List – September 18, 2007

    Posted by: John Schroeder at 05:18 am, September 18th 2007     &mdash      Comment on this post »

    The Real Enemy Rears Its Head…

    Bill Maher and Larry Charles have a movie out there.  Says Christianity Today:

    Both men expect controversy as the film continues to gain momentum, with Charles calling the movie "pan-offensive." Maher adds: "People who say they're religious say they're humble, but they're arrogant, because they say they have all the answers."

    Here's the take from the Toronto International Film Festival.  CT further quotes:

    Charles says that while some films "poke gentle fun" at religion, he and Maher hope to "stab it to death."

    Every time we fight over religious labels, we give guys like this fuel.  IF you have any doubt, check this out from The Democratic Strategist, courtesy Ramesh Ponnuru:

    Lord 'a' mercy! For the self-styled Party of the Godly, the GOP is certainly having a lot of religious issues with its presidential field. There's Mitt Romney's Mormonism. There's Rudy Giuliani's rather tenuous relationship with the Roman Catholic Church. There's the question as to whether Fred Thompson is a member of the conservative Church of Christ or the progressive United Church of Christ, or doesn't go to church at all. There's Sam Brownback's conversion from Methodism to Catholicism via the controversial Opus Dei organization. And for those Republicans, if there are any, who are scrupulous about separation of church and state, Mike Huckabee's position as an ordained Southern Baptist minister might raise a few eyebrows.

    That paragraph just amazes me.  There should be only one question that matters – are those various churches consistent with the public religion?  And yes, they all are.  Reading that sounds to me vaguely like the old stuff you used to read about "high yellows" and "darkies" and whether Julian Bond's skin tone was really dark enough to represent black people.  We really are supposed to be better than that.

    And why is it that Democrats are noticing labels so?  I thought they were the party of non-discrimination?

    LOWELL adds:  They are also the party where secularism is most at home. That's an unhappy and disturbing aspect of today's politics– we have one major party (the GOP) where active believers tend to congregate, and another (the Democrats) where non-believers tend to congregate.  (I am generalizing, or course.)  The take-home message for religious conservatives of all stripes is that the Democrats and their fellow-travelers in the MSM are spoiling for a fight — among religious conservatives!  The left-leaning elements in both groups have purchased ringside seats to what they hope will be a messy battle.  Looks like Maher's movie is the preview.

    ANNOUNCMENT!

    Here's your chance to see Romney speak without writing a huge check to the campaign – the FRC Action sponsored Washington Briefing.  They just reduced the registration fees.  It's a real opportunity to see pretty much everybody who is anybody in religion and politics.

    Finally…

    Wish I'd thought of this.

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    Today’s Reading List – September 17, 2007

    Posted by: John Schroeder at 05:42 am, September 17th 2007     &mdash      Comment on this post »

    It gets very serious… 

    The Washington Post carries a piece by Beliefnet Editor Dan Gilgoff that attempts to summarize the state of "The Question."  The piece is not all that politically astute, but it does do something that was bound to happen.  In an effort to explain Romney's religious problem (What problem– the one that has him leading in the polls in all the early states?) the piece looks first right:

    Much of the intolerance toward his church arises from the politicization of evangelical Protestants. Before the appearance of groups such as the Moral Majority, which didn't get off the ground until a decade after George Romney's run, Southern evangelicals were politically uninvolved or tacitly Democratic. But the rise of the Christian right turned them into a key segment of the GOP's base — a shift that suddenly made the personal beliefs of would-be Republican presidents very relevant. "Does anyone care about Harry Reid's Mormonism?" asks Alan Wolfe, director of the Boisi Center for Religion and American Public Life at Boston College, referring to the Democratic Senate majority leader. "No, because he's not in the party where everyone goes out of their way to prove their piety."

    And then left:

    But Romney's Mormon woes also stem from the secular liberalism that took root in the 1960s. The left-leaning New Republic questioned the fitness of a Mormon to serve as president in a cover story last January. Another Gallup survey found that liberals represent the ideological group most wary of Mormonism, with 61 percent holding an unfavorable view of the faith. "The difference between a Southern Baptist and a Mormon might be academic for a typical secularist," says John C. Green of the University of Akron in Ohio. "Both groups would be seen as supporting a social agenda that the secular population doesn't care for."

    The net result is that "evangelical Protestants" are cast as extremists.

    As the article points out, religion was a non-issue in Romney's father's campaign.  The struggle for religion to find a political voice in the following decades has been a major effort, and it has been successful.  But having it cast as extremism is a certain way to kill it.

    Of course, the press will go running to the extremists because they make the most interesting stories, and there are extremists in the mix.  It may be the extremists that have garnered the attention during the rise of the religious voice since George Romney ran, but it has been the hard work of the moderates that has made the difference.

    If stories like this keep being written it is time for the moderates to move to center stage and demand the attention their efforts deserve.  By nature such people are not attention grabbers, but they need to learn some new skills.  Too much is at stake.

    LowellI actually think Gilgoff got this right, at least in terms of the liberal and conservative aspects of religious-based concerns about Romney.  Even so, some of the commentators he quotes seem a bit too wedded to stereotypes.  E.g., Alan Wolfe's claim that the GOP is "the party where everyone goes out of their way to prove their piety."  Let's see, aren't Democrats Obama and Clinton doing just that?  And aren't Republicans Giuliani and Thompson trying hard not to talk about their lack of piety?  Romney's problem is that he is a conservative and unabashedly religious. The left and the mainstream news media (excuse my redundancy) are very uncomfortable with such people.  To the extent conservatives are uncomfortable with Romney on religious grounds, that's because of ignorance (the majority) or stubborn religious prejudice (a fairly small minority, I think).

    LATE ADDITION!: Powerline begins to discuss the Gilgoff piece.  They are wondering if the problem is anti-Mormon sentitment or general anti-religious sentitment and suggest that looking at the polling and seeing where the Romney resistance comes from will answer which.  That is a little simplistic with an issue like this.

    For one thing, Romney's camapaign strategy clouds the existing data.  National polls are not going to tell the story because Romney's name recognition nationally just is not there yet, and he is working the campaign that way.

    Secondly, evangelical Christians just are not the bloc vote their test assumptions would demand.  They may be regionally, but not nationally.  But then there are a number of other factors that contribute to the regional polling patterns besides religion.

    However, a survey of all that has been written on the issue clearly demonstrates where the opposition resides.  It has consistently been the left that has written the biased and bigoted pieces about Romney's faith (Weisberg, Linker, Woodward, Kinsley).  What has been written from the right has been resistant, but not dissmissive, and it has come from very specific corners of the religious right and not the movement as a whole.  For every Al Mohler there is a Pat Robertson.

    When it comes to what has appeared in the press there is little doubt where the strongest opposition to Romney lies.  In the end the religious right may have other preferences, but they will support Romney if he can position himself as a winner in all other ways.  But the left wants him destroyed and is willing to use whatever, including religion, as a weapon.

    LOWELL adds:

    Two of Paul Mirengoff's points deserve comment.  First: 

    But there's no reason why Mormons, qua Mormons, should be any less popular (or electable) than they were 40 years ago. It's true, as Gilgoff points out, that evangelical Protestants have become much more "politicized." But that does not mean they have become more bigoted. [Emphasis added.]

    This strikes me as a bit superficial.  The issue is much more complex than mere Evangelical bigotry, and there are plenty of reasons why a Mormon presidential candidate's electability is a much more interesting hurdle today than it was in 1968.  Then, there were around a million Mormons in the entire world.  Now there are twelve million.  That faith is simply a much bigger "blip" on the political radar screen than it ever has been before.  Evangelicals, for their part, were not even on the radar screen in 1967-68.  Today they have been a potent political force since 1980 and the early days of Jerry Falwell's Moral Majority.  Just as important, the left in American society, and leftism's adherents in the legacy news media and the entertainment industry, were much less hostile to traditional values in 1967 than they are now. 

    So:  Mormons are more visible and more controversial.  That's true in some evangelical circles for reasons of doctrinal differences and the growing threat Mormonism presents to some– a phenomenon that is very much "inside Evangelical baseball," as John as noted repeatedly. The news media is more hostile to traditional religious values and loves — loves –  the idea of mean, nasty and bigoted Evangelicals beating up on a straight-laced Mormon presidential candidate.  For them, it's a "twofer" — internecine warfare among two groups they either find bizarre or simply dislike.

    For those same reasons, I think Paul is more on-target here: 

    [I]t makes sense that prejudice against candiates [sic] with deeply held religous [sic] beliefs would initially manifest itself in problems for a candidate who belongs to a demanding church that's outside the mainstream. In the same way, for example, one would expect an uptick in anti-Jewish sentiment (of which, to my knowledge, there's no evidence) initially to redound mainly to the detriment of an Orthodox candidate.

    The "demanding" nature of Mormonism frightens many people, primarily those on the left.  Think about it:  Romney is a wealthy, handsome candidate who doesn't swear; has been married for almost 40 years to the same beautiful, smart, articulate woman; and belongs to a church that insists for its members that sexual relations are appropriate only within marriage and that alcohol, drugs, tobacco, tea, and coffee are forbidden.  Add to those beliefs Mormonism's conservative positions on such left-wing shibboleths as abortion and same-sex marriage.  Romney truly provides the news media, which finds all those characteristics and beliefs quaint at best and dangerous or frightening at worst, with what the military call a target-rich environment.

    Oh Give Me A Break….

    David Brody:

    I understand that presidential candidates aren’t running for Pastor-in-Chief. But there has been such a movement by the top tier republican candidates to distance themselves from any talk about God and Church that quite frankly, it’s been rather startling. This is an opportunity for Baptist preacher and presidential candidate Mike Huckabee to gain ground.

     

    Should we be monitoring a candidate’s Church attendance? Of course not. That’s not the true indicator. This is not about who’s more religious. That’s not the question. The larger issue here is which candidate will get the support from the bulk of religious conservatives?  The top tier guys want their support but don’t want to engage in the religious part of the discussion.

    This group has said as much, and in many cases more, than any presidential candidates in prior elections.   They just don't say what the press wants to hear.  What they refuse to do is play religion as a constituency group, something that is in the great American tradition.

    But that does not prevent the London Telegraph from thinking Republicans will lose "the God Vote."  Yeah, uh-huh!?  Like there is someplace else for them to go.  Frankly we will be better off without a "God Vote."  Religion is religion, not a voting bloc.  A WaPo blog thinks the same thing as the Telegraph, but uses the "values voter" code.

    Might it just be possible that religiously motivated voters have matured a little – that they are thinking issues and candidates, not labels?  Could be, but then the left would not have something to bash us with, and the press can't let that happen.

    Some people…

    Like a TV reporter in Houston, have yet to figure out that the religion thing is about dead and they just have to plow the same old row, one more time.

    Fortunately, our Houston friend is not alone, as this guy from a Detroit suburb illustrates.  As well as this Phoenix area columnist.

    Just wondering…

    There might be some lessons for cross-religion voting in this story.

    Finally…

    If I had a dollar for every political fund-raising call I have received in my life, [insert hyperbole about being wealthy here] - but something happened yesterday that has never happened before in all those phone calls.  WHILE I WAS GETTING DRESSED FOR CHURCH, I got one – from the Thompson campaign.  Hmmmm….

    Lowell:  Irony, thy name is Fred.

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    Today’s Reading List – September 14, 2007

    Posted by: John Schroeder at 05:52 am, September 14th 2007     &mdash      Comment on this post »

    About South Carolina…

    David Broder looks and says:

    No Republican in the modern era of contested nominations has won both of these early states, [ed note: IA, NH] and the plausible belief in the Romney camp is that his doing so would have the effect of vaulting him into the lead nationally. As of now, those contests will be followed by Michigan, where Romney spent his boyhood and the Romney name is familiar, thanks to his father's service as governor. Then come South Carolina, where Romney's challenge is simply to exceed low expectations, and Florida, which in the Romney calculus could be decisive in setting the table for the Feb. 5 super-primary. [emphasis added]

    LowellThis seems obvious to me.  It apparently is not obvious to those who keep yammering on about national polls. 

    But Reid Wilson at OpinionJournal's Political Diary (subscription required) says:

    But South Carolina is a precedent of its own: The state has never failed to go to the candidate who eventually wins the Republican nomination. If that trend holds, look for the Republican nomination to be fought out between Mr. Giuliani and former Senator Fred Thompson, who remain statistically tied for the lead with just over 20% of the vote each. Mitt Romney places a distant fourth, hovering around the double-digit mark, in a state where his Mormon faith is looked upon skeptically by some evangelical Christians.

    OK, facts, Romney is polling worse in SC than other early states. Evangelicals are a larger presence in SC than elsewhere, but that does not necessarily mean that those two facts are directly connected.  (It is the whole correlation/causation thing in statistical studies.)  Thompson, because of his southern roots, would have a huge advantage there, regardless of religion.  But what I really hate is that every time this, or something like it, gets written it implies that SC Evangelicals are religious bigots.  Some undoubtedly are, but in the end I doubt it is enough to carry the day.

    Lowell:  My own guess (and that's all it is) is that Evangelical misgivings about Romney's Mormonism are in the mix, but suspicion about his true conservatism and his "Yankee-ness" are there too.  How much of each is involved is impossible to tell.  What matters, I think, is that all of those can be overcome. The religion hangup may be the first to go.

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