Comments on: Religious Leaders And Political Orders http://www.article6blog.com/2006/05/04/religious-leaders-and-political-orders/ "Religion, Politics, the Presidency: Commentary by a Mormon, an Evangelical, and an Orthodox Christian" Wed, 08 Feb 2012 23:15:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1 By: AST http://www.article6blog.com/2006/05/04/religious-leaders-and-political-orders/comment-page-1/#comment-16 AST Fri, 05 May 2006 02:48:49 +0000 http://www.article6blog.com/2006/05/04/religious-leaders-and-political-orders/#comment-16 The LDS church's authorities include both Democrats and Republicans, although Utah is pretty much conservative and Republican. There's been an ongoing dispute in the letters to the local papers about whether one can be a good Mormon and a Democrat. The church has made a point of denying that, and, indeed, a number of General Authorities are Democrats. Harry Reid, the minority leader in the Senate is LDS. I haven't perceived any influence by the church in his positions, but that's my own prejudice. As for Mitt Romney, I have to say that he is no more likely to go to the church for instruction than any other president ever has. The main thing to judge him by is his accomplishments and his statements. As for the prophet being like Moses, I would only point out that the Israelites were a theocracy, a government by God through his prophet. Moses had both religious and political authority. President Hinckley has only religious authority, and claims no political authority. Non-LDS Utahns are always complaining about the church's influence in politics, but if that were true, Utah wouldn't have voted to repeal prohibition. Joseph Smith Jr., the "founder" of the church, said when asked how he was able to govern his followers, "I teach them correct principles and they govern themselves." The church speaks out on moral issues, which sometimes become political issues, but it doesn't endorse parties or candidates. The LDS church’s authorities include both Democrats and Republicans, although Utah is pretty much conservative and Republican. There’s been an ongoing dispute in the letters to the local papers about whether one can be a good Mormon and a Democrat. The church has made a point of denying that, and, indeed, a number of General Authorities are Democrats.

Harry Reid, the minority leader in the Senate is LDS. I haven’t perceived any influence by the church in his positions, but that’s my own prejudice.

As for Mitt Romney, I have to say that he is no more likely to go to the church for instruction than any other president ever has. The main thing to judge him by is his accomplishments and his statements.

As for the prophet being like Moses, I would only point out that the Israelites were a theocracy, a government by God through his prophet. Moses had both religious and political authority. President Hinckley has only religious authority, and claims no political authority. Non-LDS Utahns are always complaining about the church’s influence in politics, but if that were true, Utah wouldn’t have voted to repeal prohibition.

Joseph Smith Jr., the “founder” of the church, said when asked how he was able to govern his followers, “I teach them correct principles and they govern themselves.” The church speaks out on moral issues, which sometimes become political issues, but it doesn’t endorse parties or candidates.

]]> By: LowellB http://www.article6blog.com/2006/05/04/religious-leaders-and-political-orders/comment-page-1/#comment-10 LowellB Thu, 04 May 2006 21:56:21 +0000 http://www.article6blog.com/2006/05/04/religious-leaders-and-political-orders/#comment-10 Dear A4g: Thanks for your comment. Without getting into a doctrinal discussion or debate per se (we are going to avoid those here), let me try to respond in the context of a theoretical Mitt Romney presidency. The LDS Church believes in continuing revelation. Our Ninth Article of faith is: "We believe all that God has revealed, all that he does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the kingdom of God." So yes, we consider the current president of our church, Gordon B. Hinckley, to be the authoritative equal of Moses, Isaiah, or Peter-- not necessarily equal in stature or historical importance, but a divinely authorized prophet just the same. This does not mean we consider President Hinckley any kind of mystic. He's actually a very ordinary-seeming man. To get a flavor of his teaching, you can look <a href="http://lds.org/conference/talk/display/0,5232,49-1-602-26,00.html" target="_blank">here</a>, at his most recent address to the entire LDS Church. In the context of my post here, my personal view (which I think is widely shared) is that the prophet gives divinely inspired direction on spiritual and moral issues. I think he (and the Church leadership generally) take a"hands off" approach to politics. I share this information not in order to convince anyone of Mormon beliefs, but to help readers understand the Romney religion issue in context. I hope it helps! <!-- /comment --> Dear A4g:

Thanks for your comment. Without getting into a doctrinal discussion or debate per se (we are going to avoid those here), let me try to respond in the context of a theoretical Mitt Romney presidency.

The LDS Church believes in continuing revelation. Our Ninth Article of faith is: “We believe all that God has revealed, all that he does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the kingdom of God.” So yes, we consider the current president of our church, Gordon B. Hinckley, to be the authoritative equal of Moses, Isaiah, or Peter– not necessarily equal in stature or historical importance, but a divinely authorized prophet just the same.

This does not mean we consider President Hinckley any kind of mystic. He’s actually a very ordinary-seeming man. To get a flavor of his teaching, you can look here, at his most recent address to the entire LDS Church.

In the context of my post here, my personal view (which I think is widely shared) is that the prophet gives divinely inspired direction on spiritual and moral issues. I think he (and the Church leadership generally) take a”hands off” approach to politics.

I share this information not in order to convince anyone of Mormon beliefs, but to help readers understand the Romney religion issue in context. I hope it helps!

]]> By: JohnS http://www.article6blog.com/2006/05/04/religious-leaders-and-political-orders/comment-page-1/#comment-6 JohnS Thu, 04 May 2006 19:29:21 +0000 http://www.article6blog.com/2006/05/04/religious-leaders-and-political-orders/#comment-6 Patrick, A4G: Thank you for those clarifications on Roman Catholic doctrine. As I said, I don't claim expertise, just a limited amount of knowledge. Your clarifications are useful, but do not I think change the basic premise of my post which is that Mormons and Catholics have very different views of the authority of the church and the duties of its members.  IN seminary terms, Cathlics grant leadership a "priestly" role, while Mormons grant them somethng akin to an "apostolic" role. Patrick, A4G:

Thank you for those clarifications on Roman Catholic doctrine. As I said, I don’t claim expertise, just a limited amount of knowledge.

Your clarifications are useful, but do not I think change the basic premise of my post which is that Mormons and Catholics have very different views of the authority of the church and the duties of its members.  IN seminary terms, Cathlics grant leadership a “priestly” role, while Mormons grant them somethng akin to an “apostolic” role.

]]> By: a4g http://www.article6blog.com/2006/05/04/religious-leaders-and-political-orders/comment-page-1/#comment-5 a4g Thu, 04 May 2006 19:00:10 +0000 http://www.article6blog.com/2006/05/04/religious-leaders-and-political-orders/#comment-5 Lowell -- I read your description of the President of the Church and your comparison to Moses as indicating that he has an affirmative authority -- which I understand to mean that his teachings are, in a way, directed by God. Is this a correct interpretation? John -- Catholic theology emphasizes the negative action on the part of the Holy Spirit in infallibility and authority-- i.e. not that the Pope is necessarily directed to teach what is right on subject A, B, or C; but rather <em>prevented</em> from teaching these in error. The development of theology, is a process of human inquiry and deepening understanding, inspired and guided away from error by the action of the Paraclete, not a loudspeaker from God. Perhaps a distinction without much of a difference, but one that Catholics have been obsessively contemplating for nearly 2000 years. Lowell –

I read your description of the President of the Church and your comparison to Moses as indicating that he has an affirmative authority — which I understand to mean that his teachings are, in a way, directed by God. Is this a correct interpretation?

John –

Catholic theology emphasizes the negative action on the part of the Holy Spirit in infallibility and authority– i.e. not that the Pope is necessarily directed to teach what is right on subject A, B, or C; but rather prevented from teaching these in error. The development of theology, is a process of human inquiry and deepening understanding, inspired and guided away from error by the action of the Paraclete, not a loudspeaker from God. Perhaps a distinction without much of a difference, but one that Catholics have been obsessively contemplating for nearly 2000 years.

]]> By: Patrick http://www.article6blog.com/2006/05/04/religious-leaders-and-political-orders/comment-page-1/#comment-2 Patrick Thu, 04 May 2006 18:12:44 +0000 http://www.article6blog.com/2006/05/04/religious-leaders-and-political-orders/#comment-2 Your statement regarding the authority of the Pope ("Catholic doctrine holds that the Pope is the voice of God on earth") makes up for in simplicity what it lacks in accuracy. The Church teaching is NOT that the Pope is the "voice of God on earth." The Catholic Church holds that the era of revelation closed when the last apostle died. The Church does teach that the Pope is infallible in teaching regarding faith and morals. (See this article http://www.catholic.com/library/Papal_Infallibility.asp) However, the Pope cannot give "orders" to any Catholic with regard to prudential decisions. So, the question is badly framed, Hugh. Nevertheless, if you are going to discuss Catholic teaching, at least correctly state what Church teaching is, or find someone (preferably a Catholic) to discuss it. Your statement regarding the authority of the Pope (“Catholic doctrine holds that the Pope is the voice of God on earth”) makes up for in simplicity what it lacks in accuracy. The Church teaching is NOT that the Pope is the “voice of God on earth.” The Catholic Church holds that the era of revelation closed when the last apostle died. The Church does teach that the Pope is infallible in teaching regarding faith and morals. (See this article http://www.catholic.com/library/Papal_Infallibility.asp)
However, the Pope cannot give “orders” to any Catholic with regard to prudential decisions. So, the question is badly framed, Hugh. Nevertheless, if you are going to discuss Catholic teaching, at least correctly state what Church teaching is, or find someone (preferably a Catholic) to discuss it.

]]>